Getting tenure at a r1 I was a “slam dunk” when I earned tenure at my state R2 many Now I’m not aiming to become world famous or work at MIT or anything. ” Brown I'd really appreciate some help thinking through this! I'm a couple of years into my first job at a respectable public R1 in the US. :D The pay at the R3 is not as good as at an R1, but several years I Answering emails at home is a qualitatively different experience than that of a pre-tenure faculty member at an R1. Rather, I suspect that something like the following rule of thumb is the best way for candidates to think: the more Tenure isn't even equivalent to tenure in most other places now apparently and he thinks it will only get worse. At public CC's in my state, tenure and promotion is based solely on years-of-service. I actually did one year at an R2 before coming here, However, the prospect of NOT getting tenure (god forbid, of course) scares I'm a humanities researcher at an R1 university, just a few years into the tenure track. My school offered to match and make my job TT, but I'd have to start the clock at zero. I'm sure folks will chime in with I have a friend who was denied tenure, and it basically had to do with the structure of the tenure process at my R1. D. He landed on his feet at another R1 that I would consider just as good. To meet these At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. The tenure breakdown is separately negotiated for each person in my department. com/nz/podcast/r3ciprocity-podcast/id1588972364I discuss how h Dear STEM Professors, If any of you have denied tenure at an R1 University, could you please share your experiences? What went wrong? Additionally, if this happened to any of your I have a friend who has tenure at a R1 school, but have to move to another city because of family reason. I said no. Do they mean that getting a tenure-track job with a high salary and good startup funds at a reputable R1 university is At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. I do not have any other academic offers at the moment. 35” sources: 34. I think you’d How good of a school do you actually need to get a PhD from to land tenure track positions at R1 (Electrical Engineering)? Career Advice I don’t know why but recently I’ve been under the It says OP is in finance, and I’d say for anyone currently going through the tenure process in finance at an R1 institution, this is probably true. Open Engineering at a large public R1 in the US. I have a good profile publication-wise (journal and conference) but I don't In this day and age, it could actually be better. (R1) brought in a candidate who had tenure at her old institution but we didn’t give Have a clear plan for getting funding. Between the committee meetings, the dissertation and candidacy committees, the Personally, I turned down an R1 PhD offer in favor of an R2 for lifestyle reasons, and I’m now tenure track faculty at an R1. Good luck Reply reply synthesis-synthesis • The Depends on what you're interested in doing. to wait that long to know with very good accuracy what the result will be though since they I'm tenure track at a Small Liberal Arts College (SLAC) and been through a couple of postdocs, so I know what Math research is If you are near an R1 (or similar) that has a . It worked in my favor because I was able to gain a ton of hands on experience in all aspects of research and my advisors took Getting hired at a different institution from an existing TT line is easier because those search committees can see that you have already been evaluated as qualified for a TT line. I got my PhD at an R1 university, a tenure-track at a community college (in a blue state with strong union and state employee provisions), and a VAP at an R1 Ok, so I just started as an assistant prof at an R1 in Aug. It's still difficult, but more attainable than an R1 position. Definitely not a I started off at a very small R3 school for my bachelors and masters, and ended up at a R1 institution for my PhD. At the university where I did my PhD (flagship What might not be realistic is getting a tenure track job where your responsibilities are flipped so a job that is 70% research 30% teaching. For reference, I am a current PhD I knew I was not cut out for it when my postdoc advisor said, "I don't know why people say getting tenure is hard. More luck. 1 due to financial problems and mental health issues that I was dealing with the time. Some R1s do have research I don't know what R1 is or the systems you use in the USA, but it's weird to me that you guys need to get grants to cover your own salaries during holidays. Presuming my research is excellent, poor teaching could result in not At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. The below applies to a tenure-track position at an R1 Here's the rank order real secrets to getting tenure at an R1, imho: Don't be an asshole. , book chapters), majority of pubs were first authors and in medium-to For a tenure-track assistant professor position in STEM. Fairly common to have 50 teaching, 40 research 10 service, I am wrapping up my third year at an R1 institution studying psychology, and will soon be on the job market before I know it. The second year, I applied to a much more reasonable 34 positions and got two interviews, one Speaking as a faculty member at an R1 university, I have been on both sides of the table. I’m at a top R1. Its a much less stressful path while allowing you to remain an academic. I did see a few At an R1 institution, that's the job. Hello! I recently accepted a tenure-track job as an assistant professor at an R1 on the east coast US. 2019), as well as challenges related to getting tenure during the pandemic (Carney, 2021). And likewise, some campuses may have a 5, 7 or a 9 year tenure timeline (instead of the more typical 6), while for some So my undergraduate gpa, from an R1, is a 2. Of course getting denied tenure is both abrupt and unsettling. She got a job at a non-R1 school and even then they would not give her tenure right Full professor in engineering at a public R1 makes about $150k (more with summer salary if you get enough grants to cover it)—about what an MS would make with 5 years of experience. When you get hired, “So, while you have worked for years to check off all the boxes, when it comes down to it, there could be politics at play that prevents you from getting tenure. It is worse in the There is plenty of excellent advice online about how to get tenure at R1 research schools. My current institution is an R1. That track record is probably externally hireable at a 4/4 school. Plus you have to take a pay cut. it just feels like I've stepped over the edge of an abyss. But, I find myself with a question now about how "appropriate" it is to put in notice to leave a tenure track I recently applied to a Associate Professor job at a R1 school and got an offer. —Don’t From my understanding, community college contracts are teaching and service with no research requirements, you have faster tenure process. A career in data science with a statistics PhD could start near $200K, and provide plenty of opportunities for advancement past that. student at a top R1, i'm only really exposed to success stories of people getting tenure-track jobs. To get tenure, worked absolutely relentlessly to the point where I basically had a mental breakdown. So far, the job's been pretty dominated by prep for my courses. My partner does not have any offers either. How competitive are A pretty normal teaching load is 3-0 at R1's (3 classes one semester, zero the other) with 1 prep, whereas at an R2 that load would be much much less likely -- maybe 2-2 if you're lucky, and Some institutions are now to have revolving-door assistant professorships, with only one out of 10 getting tenure. I can't imagine teaching 4-4 loads and getting anything else done. All things point In general I would be cautious of teaching positions at R1 institutions because sometimes the teaching faculty are viewed as second-class citizens with a wide berth between them and the I’ll also add that all things being equal, tenure track is better. Jane Junn, I got tenure at an R1 department a few months ago, so I can speak to some of these questions. If you want to go for tenure at a major R1 institution, it'll be tough. I've told my advisor and committee that I see myself as an academic at an R1. By all accounts, the only obligation to be on campus is That being said, the salaries are generally lower than what you'd get at an R1. Will it survive in the 21st century? A scholar weighs in. I need lots of The first year, I applied to 120 positions, got ONE interview and got the job (non tenure-track). In short, any research that had been completed (e. Next, you need to Now I’m not aiming to become world famous or work at MIT or anything. But R1 in psychology a little more than 15 years ago: ~25 peer-reviewed journal publications and ~5 other publications (e. Although teaching-focused NTT faculty at R1s have historically been paid something Me: at R1 in US, currently Associate Professor and have chaired tenure committees for faculty going up for promotion In general, the focus in your tenure package is on your productivity Yea, you probably want a PhD from an R1 to get a professor position. Similarly, I chose a department that is much less well known (though still R1) Getting research presentations at regional meetings and working on manuscripts when possible throughout the first couple of years, because getting tenure still required refereed abstracts In about nine months or so, I will start the job search. All of the responsibilities with Getting a tenure-track job is very competitive. Nor is your pub record, I got tenure at an R1 this year, and I have to say. Most people in my graduate program don't seem to be worried about it, and the I suspect not. Show that you will succeed at the place where you're applying and not just the place you are now. My colleagues do great work and many are movers and I've heard of the difficulty of getting tenure-track professorships at R1 institutions, but I am curious about the competition at national labs (staff positions). They tenured him within after one year. Graduate a PhD student. My starting salary was actually a bit more than I made as a postdoc (couldn't I also left in my final year as assistant professor at the SLAC to come to a short tenure track at the R1. Larson, Lauren N. To meet these high standards, junior If you've been in ultra-elites for PhD and postdoc, and are applying to places on the fringes of R1, you need to convince the committee you will be successful there. Sure the title is nice, but the security is where it’s at. And we don't really account After 7 years on tenure track at an R1 business school, I'm out . But there are a wide range of institutions with a sliding scale of research expectations. com/r3ciprocityListen to my new podcasts: https://podcasts. AMA. Princeton and Yale, for specific examples, However, on the tenure track normally, it is teaching/research/service, with the proportion of each one dependent on the kind of school it is. But I am utterly exhausted. I was told basically that at LSU, like other R1 institutions I was expected to publish at least two papers a year in quality journals, get a grant of a sum that should be What is your academic discipline and what type of school do you hope to teach at (e. When I was hired the chair gave me a list of department standards for tenure. Reply reply carloserm • Some aspiring R2 are also now focusing more I work at an R2 and went through tenure a while back. I'm currently in the process of applying to several tenur-track faculty positions at R1 universities. Here's the rank order real secrets to getting tenure at an R1, imho: Don't be an asshole. If you make it X years and I've heard that at some R1's, tenure standards are fairly clear: that the expectation is something like one publication in a highly-ranked journal per year (so, something like 6 They may rely only on selected internal reviewers. Can't speak At my US R1, I was awarded tenure “early”, but I came to the university after ten years in industry and a very strong record of publications and patents even before I started and had the best What kind of institution were you hired into the tenure track to--for example, an 'elite R1' (Harvard, Princeton, My impression is that people have been getting tenure for less There's nothing like a half-million dollar grant award being announced the day the provost gets your tenure package. We didn't consider anyone without at least one A to A- Hi, I am nearing the end of my PhD and am looking for Tenure-track Assistant Professor positions at R1 universities. However, if you're Between 1998 and 2012, 92% of white male faculty were awarded tenure, while the same was true of only 55% of women and minority faculty. I've been getting better I've seen numerous R1 assistant professors in the job market during their 4th or 5th year before their tenure review to look for higher ranked departments. You just don't have a social life for then maybe permanency. Sounds quite exploitative to me. At research-intensive universities in the United States, eligible faculty must generally excel in research, teaching and service in order to receive tenure. In fact, the year I was Getting tenure typically requires that you are well cited, well known, and have obtained a decent amount of funding, and developing these things is time consuming and it is much easier if you Personally, I don’t see the attractiveness of getting Tenure at a non-R1 institution in the US. It's been a great ride. 90k is spectacularly beyond decent for a non tenure track position; we don't pay our tenure-track hires quite that much and I'm at an R1. Duffy, (R1, R2, R3) to master’s colleges and universities (M1, M2) to Tenure-track positions are almost always hard money positions, irrespective of whether you're at a R1 or R2, unless it's an appointment in the medical school. Ironically, it's not that I hear you! I'm at a public R1, pre-tenure, and am thinking about Plan B as I watch my effective income shrink. apple. Speaking very generally, the expectations are 2x-3x higher at an R1. My TT job wasn't at an R1 - it was at an R2 without a graduate Whether it’s normal at other places is irrelevant. My friend's R2 requires 2 pubs per year I went up for early tenure (at an R1) in 4 years and was promoted. standards at this point in time seem to be an average of 2 peer-reviewed I wouldn't say I have slowed down my research. At an R1, it is RESEARCH, then teaching and I flushed a decade and a half of my 20s and 30s down the toilet between grad school, postdoc, first job, and finally getting to the R1 A fresh PhD has a good shot at a fellowship or a Tenure requirements at American R1/ R2 institutions change over time. My dept. I am up for tenure this year and have a good chance of getting approved (have several strong 5 min read. But it’s also a possibility that anyone on the tenure track has signed up for. An I'm a tenure-track professor at a top-10 R1 in my 5th year (started 2014). It's supposed to be the achievement, but I've never felt this low, and I guess I'm just Earning tenure at an R1 is very different than non-R1s. Any other tenure track professor can review as much or as You should also consider the factor that the actual tenure rate is often low at these schools (that is, the % of tenure track faculty who get tenure). Failing to achieve tenure, and therefore losing your job, is—if not a catastrophe—a significant hardship. I would have landed tenure at Academic tenure – a system of job protections for university professors – came about in the early 20th century. I've told my advisor and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but currently the average rate of new PhD's getting tenure track positions hovers around something like 30% across all disciplines. You don’t want to have the worries every 2-3 years that the budget may get cut Non-elite R1 and we are expected to contribute 50% teaching, 30% research, and 20% service. I've always maintained that I want a tenure-track position at an R1. If you're getting interviews, your age is not causing you issues clearing from resume pile to on-campus. , R1 research school versus liberal arts university)? I've known people with no teaching I'm tenure-track at a regional public institution, but I came from an R1 environment. mid ranked university? STEM so you end up in an R1 that is a well oiled machine? Collegial? Supportive? where So what did the university expect from me pre-tenure. I'm finding the last few years before tenure decision to be particularly tiring and I'm worn out. (I'm Counseling Psych, he's Electrical Engineering) at different R1 universities, and —Don’t apply within a few years after getting tenure because the search committee will assume you’re fishing for another offer to leverage for a pay bump at your current institution. And it’s CS isn't yet at the "postdoc is required for R1 TT jobs" stage. Once you get into that pseudo-administration role it’s a whole different beast. Is it easier to switch jobs before In the U. g. It does not matter where, R1, R2, SLAC, LAC. To meet these I'm finishing up my first academic year as tenure-track faculty at an R1 (prior to that, I did a research postdoc/research scientist thing for two years, followed by a year as a I disagree with your colleague, although I'm in engineering, so it may be different. They will recommend publishing, limited If those are top fields then I would be able to get tenure at an ivey. Given the state of the academic job market (it’s not as though tenure-line I aspire to have a career in academia, with the long-term goal of working at a highly research-intensive university (R1). For NTT With the exponential increase in expectations for getting a TT job, getting tenure, and later promotion, In the modern world (at least in R1 STEM), research success (high-impact output, funding, attracting good student pools) of an I'm a tenured professor at a big, state flagship R1 school. Not all TT jobs are the same and not all NTT jobs are the same. Bring in grant funding What's a little nuts, is that modelers often can crank out 20 publications while wet-lab scientists (such as myself) have a much harder time getting the numbers. However, I've been applying for tenure-track positions for the past Hi all! New here! I have lurked around this sub to get advice and learn from you all. But, I did make a choice after getting tenure to be more selective about whether or not I should pollute the world with another paper. Be at least OK at teaching and having 135 votes, 174 comments. , in math, at my R1 university, a tenure-track person who does not have an NSF grant will have a hard time getting tenure, currently. Plus it’s only “tenure-track” it isn’t even guaranteed. I just want to be a tenure-track professor at an R1 university in an interesting city, where I can make enough money to I’m tenure track. While the number of letter requests strikes me as typical (my own university As a Ph. I'm thinking of letting my I was an Astro PhD in 2018 at a top 50 R1, but the group I describe was a mix of astro, condensed matter, and high energy PhDs - mostly experimental but some theorists in there. I totally over-deliver, not because I want to get an R1 job necessarily, but because as you said, I just sort of Getting Started on the Tenure Track: Challenges and Strategies for Success Lincoln R. I am coming from the west coast. To meet these If you're applying to positions at R1 research schools they often won't care a bit. Research and publication is the coin of the realm in humanities R1, and there's a We're an R1. There is a risk with the enrollment. We want to see evidence you can do what you'll need to do to get tenure. At an R1 in Canada on a search committee: we got at around 8-10 applicants in TT positions we are reopening our search (tomorrow, I think, with an April I applied to 2 jobs before I had even finished my doctorate: a tenure-track position at small private undergraduate college that prioritizes teaching, and a non-tenure track teaching position at an R1 universities demonstrate the highest level of research activity based on number of doctorates. If you've been in ultra How hard is it to attain a tenure track position as a social sciences or humanities professor at a R1 (like family getting sick, you getting sick, WWIII). I just want to be a tenure-track professor at an R1 university in an interesting city, where I can make enough money to Thinking about applying to grad school? Trying again after a previous round? Have questions? I am a tenure stream professor in a social science department at a major R1 and sit on 21 votes, 37 comments. Especially at smaller or less research focused schools, getting tenure is a often a There's an R1 near me that regularly denies tenure to almost everyone once. I'm not on the tenure track (we don't do tenure here), but I am an American Progressing from postdoctoral training to a STEM faculty appointment at a Research Intensive Institution (RII) is a daunting transition, and may be especially challenging to those who have followed a less-than I've been at both an R1 and an R2 on the TT. I think that is a After getting a PhD, would I even have a chance of becoming a tenure track faculty at an R1 institution and entering the funnel? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, because I I am a tenure track associate professor at a high level R1 university (think top-30 in rankings, although such a system is more and more suspect with each passing year). It was not an R1, and the teaching load was 3/3, etc. Let's just take the risk, and if they don't work out they won't get tenure. S. Securing a tenure-track position at a liberal arts college can be particularly difficult since there are far I have been on tenure track in an R2 institution for the last 5 years in an Engineering department. First off, congratulations on getting the interview—that's the most difficult step. did it because, quite frankly, they needed to lock me up before someone else poached me. I got tenure. papers accepted for It’s job announcement season so: I am a tenure track professor who sits on job search committees at a top 5 R1 social science department. R1 is a broad spectrum. You also need to show But in all four of my departments on two public R1 campuses, this is what it looked like: Late Spring of candidate’s year 5, the Head calls you into the office to tell you your tenure I've always maintained that I want a tenure-track position at an R1. Obviously I am non-TT at an R1 and was offered a TT job at another school. Teaching In most R2 and teaching schools, good teaching is essential for getting I became a lecturer after not getting tenure. I think they would just give you a shorten clock. Getting tenure track positions at universities is almost all about how much My experience (moving from a SLAC to a public teaching-focused university) was a bit different. Its your research that is going to get you the job. Generally speaking, faculty in the 1980s were expected to demonstrate excellence in research, teaching or service, He's a research god. I am a great teacher (top student While I agree that spousal happiness is paramount, I wouldn't say that TT is "the end of the grind" as you put it. I have debated my post-PhD goals, and ultimately set my sights on If you get tenure in a very low ranked university, it's very difficult to move up a lot with tenure, for instance. He’s a prolific scholar, got lots of external funding, his students like himhe It's a junior faculty job. I’ve scene it at R1 only when a faction wants a justification to get rid of someone because they don’t fit some agenda. I had confirmation of being granted tenure and promotion right around when I got my R1 My tenure case was a “slam dunk” in the words of my chair (at a demanding R1) and my annual reviews were always stellar. As a result, Two years after getting tenure and promotion, I was made department chair. Also what is the cause of you not getting tenure? R2's have wildly different expectations. The salary is about two times higher than my current salary with a potential to increase it to 4 times of my current New tenure-track faculty members at research-intensive (R1 or R2) institutions [ 1] emerge from a competitive, months-long job search process, eager to begin their in- It depends on the field and department. One big problem is that PhD programs set you up for an R1 position and most profs in those programs only know how to mentor for them. Share Sort by: Best. (R1) seriously considered people (invited to campus) that were denied at I'm 44 years old and a year away from being up for tenure at a US R1 in STEM. For me in particular, I've I think it’s a mix of energy and desperation for tenure. However one thing to understand is that teaching track I have met at least three professors in both programs who were newly hired tenure track professors who then just leave one or two years later and are hired for tenure track positions I've resigned to never getting a tenure track position because I'm just not a big enough asshole to make it . The target is a postdoc for Buy me a coffee: buymeacoffee. " The tenure decision is very different than the hiring decision. If you’re getting clear signals that those are the expectations at your institution, then ignoring them isn’t practical and opens you up to not If all that matters to you is getting a tenure-track position in your subfield, in anthropology, at an R1 school, you're going to have a very difficult time. " And yet (John Doe) did not get tenure. And as an added bonus I can tell you that there was never an Pursuing a career in the academy can be rewarding and challenging. As a TT assistant professor at an R1, I've always seen the load at a SLAC as being next to impossible. Although internal promotion wise you could get away with And the most interesting thing to me is, even for STEM assistant professors at R1 schools, I've seen salaries as low as $65K and as high as $160K. There are probably exceptions, but TBH basically everyone on the faculty even at my liberal arts college has Although I don't work at an R1, based on what I've heard from others my recommendation would be for the reader to ask the powers-that-be in their department and FWIW, grad school was a million times more stressful, anxiety-inducing, and awful than the TT was for me. It specified what the expectations were in So, I'm not sure there's an 'ideal publication record' for getting a non-R1 job. The stress of publication for papers hardly anyone reads and has no impact on the world plus the few students that pester I am currently employed as a research scientist in industry. Every school is different, but what I found was that I wanted more free time with my family than the R1 would allow. If you are applying to PUIs you'll likely need some real teaching experience. Let's assume I am not going to get tenure - a good assumption given my record. Bring in grant funding consistently. So here is my attempt at giving some suggestions on how to make the most out of your years on the tenure track. It’s definitely it typical when I look around at my colleagues’ PhD h-index below 10 indicates someone who is either still a grad student, or if they've been employed as an asst prof for more than 5 years has had no impact in their field, although I've heard of What are the trade-offs of being a tenure-track STEM professor at a top vs.
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